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>> an curry's 26 acts things. britney writesday. that's mine. you're welcome. >> thanks for the sacrifice. we deeply appreciate it. i know it's difficult. great show, everyone. "morning joe" starts right now. good morning. it's thursday, january 10th. welcome to "morning joe." a live look at times square for you there. with us on set, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle and pulitzer prize-winning historian and author of "thomas jefferson: the art of power," jon meacham. and in washington, washington anchor for "bbc world news america," katty kay. morning, joe. >> mike barnicle, something that has jolted mika to her core. >> what? >> the fact that nobody since, i guess, '96 made it into the hall of fame.

and i've just got to ask a question. what has major league baseball and the sports writers that cover major league baseball, what has it all come down to when a guy is not allowed to get into the hall of fame and to be adored by my young children and meacham's young children -- >> willie's young children. >> -- and willie's young children and the young children of america just because they committed a felony and may have perjured themselves under sworn testimony. >> it's an outrage. >> the united states congress. what's america coming to? >> this is good news. >> they're cheaters. these cheaters, these felons, these perjurers are not being honored. >> they should say that they shouldn't be. >> i couldn't be happier. you listen to the sports writers, these dorks just being so offended by the fact that these cheaters, these felons, these perjurers -- >> that's horrible. >> -- not being allowed in.

>> you know, a huge percentage of members of the baseball writers association vote honorably and honestly. this was a resounding vote against the steroid era, but it's replete with hypocrisy, especially with a few of the players like mike piazza or jeff bagwell because they are not voted in because there's a suspicion that they used steroids. but the suspicion existed when they were playing. so no one wrote about it. no one said anything about it. but now you vote against a player because of a suspicion. >> by the way, of course, i'm talking, obviously, willie, about bonds and clemens. but piazza may be one of the greatest-hitting catchers ever. and if you can't nail him, if there's just suspicion, i don't think you should dock him, obviously. >> no. there's a cloud around everybody. we do have to figure out what to do. now you've got the all-time home run king, all-time hit king, a guy who won seven cy youngs in roger clemens will probably never be in the hall of fame.

a guy like mark mcgwire. >> put it on the plaque. put it on the plaque. >> no, no plaque. no nothing because they aren't. >> the steroids era. >> there you go. >> first of all, that would be the biggest construction project in the history of cooperstown. >> true. good point. >> because the game was replete with steroids for a period of perhaps as many as 20 years. but certainly for 10 to 15 years. just put it on the plaque with bonds and clemens. here's what happened with them. here's what they admitted. here's what they were charged with. whatever. put it on the plaque. >> you know what my problem is, though? and maybe this is personal with me. i was born in atlanta, georgia. i grew up, hank aaron was my idol. hank aaron was a remarkable man, decent, humble, mobile, alabama, resident, by the way, native, by the way. he carried so much on his shoulders. >> yes. >> from 1957 through 1974. april 8th, 1974 when he beat babe ruth's record. he feared for his life.

and he did it honorably. he did it decently. i don't want barry bonds, that felon, that creep, i don't want him in the same state with hank aaron. i mean, and maybe it's just because of the era, you know, that i come from. i don't want him in this -- he does not belong in the same baseball universe as hank aaron. >> well, he belongs in the hall of fame, joe. i mean, prior to 1999 when the suspicions of steroid use and bonds were linked together, he's a hall of fame ballplayer. roger clemens, yankees, red sox career, he's a hall of fame ballplayer. >> mike, i understand that's like saying that a guy before he started robbing banks at 35 was a really good deacon at his church. >> i know. >> and by the way, bonds, i mean, here's the great tragedy -- and teach it to our kids -- barry bonds was one of the ten greatest baseball players of all time before he started cheating.

it wasn't enough for him. she was selfish and greedy. how many times did he do 30/30? 30 stolen bases, 30 home runs when his head wasn't the size of one of these cameras. >> yeah. >> it was the summer of 1998 that did it. he watched mark mcgwire and sammy sosa go nuts. he watched the country fall in love with them. he watched them put up 70 home runs. he said wait a minute. i'm better than both of those guys. he decided to play catch-up. jason stark at espn had a great piece. you should go read it. he asks the question, do we want it to be a holy site or do we want it to be a museum to baseball? because if it's a museum to baseball, barry bonds, mark mcgwire, those guys have to be in there in some form. >> you're going to put those guys in there before pete rose? >> no, him, too. >> just let them sit out as long as they make pete rose sit out, one of the greatest baseball players of all time has been sitting out because he bet on teams. and i understand, you know. >> sorry, is there a compromise where you let them have the

records but didn't make them hall of famers? >> i don't want them to have the record. >> the hall of fame ballplayers, put it on the plaque. it's the baseball hall of fame, not the moral hall of fame. you have members of the ku klux klan in the hall of fame. you have perhaps people who were accessories to murder, ty cobb, in the hall of fame. you have out-and-out racists in the hall of fame. it's the baseball hall of fame. >> the hall of fame is about the game. and they cheated at the game. so they shouldn't be in there. and that's simple. we don't need six minutes of this. >> they have to be in there. >> i do want to say -- and i understand that argument, you know, what pete rose did didn't impact his statistics, didn't impact the game. what bonds and clemens did especially, they cheated -- exactly -- at the game. >> you know, one of the things they are going to have to do when they take a look at how to handle this -- and obviously, you're going to have to address the steroid era. the second thing is, there are too many voters. what sense does it make that you have someone voting yesterday

who puts aaron sealy on his ballot, a journeyman pitcher, and someone like vin scully who doesn't have a vote for the hall of fame. that's ridiculous. scale it down. 100 votes. 75 to get into the hall of fame. >> you know what this reminds me of, and i think we ought to go to katty kay with the bbc. remember the cricket, the tea-spiking scandal of india in 1907? >> mm-hmm. >> a dark, dark day for cricket. katty kay. anything to comment on here, or should we move on? >> you know what? i'm going to defer to barnicle whenever it comes to baseball. i have to say when he says there are people from the ku klux klan and rapist, i don't know if they're convicted or not who are in the hall of fame, i'd have questions about them being in there as well. yeah, of course, it's about the game, but at some point, character and what else you've done to get to that position comes into play as well. mike, i defer to you. >> if we start removing racists from baseball, then yawkey way

will have to be bank of america boulevard. >> he said racist. >> wait a second. boston. >> until we settle up on lindleys, i don't think katty should be weighing in. >> i do want to get to the news. at eight past the hour. >> thank you, mika. >> that's pretty good. >> nice turn. >> big fan of 1940. >> the king of segues. >> that is a dorky 1940. so mika. >> yes. >> i think mitt romney should fedex that binder of women that he has. >> oh, please. >> to barack obama. >> oh, please. no. he's fine. >> they're binders. it's different now. >> no, it's not different. >> now it's different because barack obama obviously doesn't know any qualified women to serve in his cabinet. mitt romney's got binders of

women that are qualified to serve. >> he widened the search and was mocked. >> no, actually, mitt romney basically ridiculed the whole concept of hiring women by getting binders. and this president has put policies -- >> has just decided not to hire women. >> are you going to interrupt? >> i don't need the binders. i just won't hire them. >> you can stop talking for a second. >> hey, valerie -- >> the 2,000 tweets that come in right now saying shut up and let mika talk. >> i'm going to take care -- let's shortcut this whole process. i'm just not going to hire any women. and hey, by the way, we just lost another female cabinet member yesterday. that's another man we can hire. to play basketball with and go golfing with. >> the supreme court. all right. the bottom line is this president, as i was going to say about a minute ago -- >> i love this. >> -- has put policies in place in which we will have many women ultimately getting to these positions. they'll be paid -- >> women working across america,

except in the white house. >> to be able to start busine businesses. >> but not access to the cabinet. but not to the top of the administration and no pathway in barack obama's cabinet. >> are you kidding me? >> you've got to be a little troubled. >> you've got to be a little troubled. come on, mika. that's a good sporting tribe, but you're not going to get into the hall of fame for spinners for that one. >> i'm not spinning. i'm not spinning. >> so you're saying that he's making -- putting policies forward is that help women all across america but at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. >> there are women working at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. >> we know there are. >> we're talking about a couple of cabinet positions that are being filled. and why don't you name the -- and it's not just gender, but its exact moment in one's career and timing and, for example, our international situation. you tell me if john kerry's right for the job. is he right for the job? >> yes. >> is chuck hagel right for the job? >> sure. >> should we discriminate

against them? because they are right for the job. >> so you're suggesting that there are no women as qualified as men for these positions. >> i think the moment has to be right on a number of levels. and i think they're good choices. >> a woman as treasury secretary. there's an opening there. there's an opening at treasury, right? >> joe? >> yes, katty. >> is that photograph that's alongside "the new york times" article yesterday disappointing? of course it's disappointing. to see a roomful of men with the president. it would be hard to say that that wasn't the case, right? but i think if you look at what the president has done in terms of the supreme court and advancing to women there, that is incredibly important. >> hear, hear. >> in terms of -- >> why are you saying that -- >> -- for a long time. i would say as a woman, that's more important to me having three women on the supreme court. >> there you go. >> than perhaps having a cabinet post that's going to come and go. >> as we know, katty, the president has to choose. it's in article 3 of the constitution. you have to choose whether you

have a fair representation of women in the supreme court or in your cabinet. i mean, look it up. we can talk to ted cruz, i'm sure he can give us the exact site, so the president has chosen to have women in the supreme court and not in the cabinet. a gutsy move. >> when we had hillary clinton as secretary of state and a senior cabinet position, it was great having a women there. you see more role models. it encourages more women to run for office. the more women we see in public positions, the more other women are encouraged in their 30s and 40s that they can do this, too. >> katty, it's 2012. let's show that picture again. and by the way, katty, i have said all along when there was, like, one woman on the supreme court, that it was disgusting and despicable. so yes, of course i salute that. you know, i've got a 9-year-old daughter. what does she think when she sees this picture? >> oh, please. >> oh, please? you know, for barack obama and his team to savage mitt romney for a month off of an offhanded

comment that really meant nothing, and here we are on something that matters. and you're forgiving him while you lit into romney and the media lit into romney for a month and now you are hypocritically, and i will say it, hypocritically giving this man a pass because he's a democrat you're cheering for. >> no, we're saying it's a disappointing photograph. >> no, you guys are trying to apologize for him after absolutely savaging mitt romney over binders. you mocked romney every day here, every single day for an offhanded comment in a debate. >> simmer down. >> no, i'm not going to simmer down. the hypocrisy is ridiculous. and you guys can keep trying to talk your way out of the box you're in. you just make yourself look silly. >> no, we can't because you have to stop talking for us to do that. so i will tell you that first of all, if you look at what this president did when he came into

office the first thing he did -- >> quit saying that. quit saying that. you say that every day. he won't apply those standards. >> i can't even finish the sentence. >> he wants other people to do to his own cabinet? >> the first thing he did, as president -- >> i've heard this. >> -- is open doors for women. the first thing he did was make sure women are paid for equitably, something i think you find to be important as it pertains to bringing women up. >> i do. and you know what? >> a chance to help themselves up. >> i do. i do. >> he established the white house council on women and girls which focuses every day in the white house on how to lifted wom lift women up, how to give women access to capital. >> you say that every day. can we show the picture again? >> the best people for the jobs in his cabinet. >> show the picture again. you say it every day. you say it every day. >> okay. well, i'm having trouble today. >> why does this women thing resonate with people so much who are critical of mitt romney and women. it wasn't specifically what he

said but that it got to an attitude that people perceived him of having. >> come on, katty. this is wrong -- >> it's this 1950s attitude towards women. >> this is what's wrong with political reporting. you take an offhanded quip, and then you blow it up. everybody on the left freaks out for a month. it was a faux pas. and then here we have something that matters, substance, cabinet positions. one man after another being selected. and you want to give him a free pass while you and mika and the media savage mitt romney for his binders comment. >> the binders comment got to a broader attitude towards women. >> a broader attitude, okay. >> yeah, i think so. don't you think -- when somebody makes a political gaffe, when does it generate generally? because it suggests that people already have a perception of that person, right? >> yes. >> no? i mean, that's -- it doesn't come out of nowhere. i mean, i think it's because it reinforces some sort of attitude that people already have. >> so you're saying the right

things, but you only select men for your cabinet? that's okay. >> no, he hasn't only selected men for his cabinet. there's napolitano, sebelius, susan rice. we've had hilda solis, hillary clinton. today barack obama doesn't have any women in his cabinet is simply not true. >> his top adviser is a woman. >> romney, as i understand what romney was saying, however inartfully, although i don't even think it was that inartful when you think about it, is what arguably you want ceos to do, managers to do, which is if we believe that having a diversity of ethnic, gender, economic background voices in a room when a decision is being made whether you're at a bank or at a university or in a car dealership or the presidency or the governor of massachusetts and you get a bunch of lists and you say, there aren't enough candidates who will bring about this diversity of views, let's look more.

>> and you know, that was the stupidity of -- >> office depot. >> -- yeah, that was the stupidity of the argument against romney for saying that. and i didn't defend romney a whole lot during the campaign for all the dumb things that he and his campaign staff did. this is what leaders do. this is what executives do. they say, bring in the best candidates we can get. that's what eisenhower did. eisenhower hired people he didn't even know. his rule was, i don't want any friends. bring me in everything you got. that's what leaders do. and it was this fake controversy that liberals churned up for a month. and now that barack -- again, i hate to say this because it gets so tiresome saying it -- if a republican in 2013 had a cabinet that looked like that, that republican would be savaged. this is what ruth marcus writes in "the washington post." "obama needs some binders of women. about all those white guys: what a shame. not an outrage, but a shame.

the face of power that president obama has chosen to present to the country and the world with his second-term cabinet picks is striking. except for the african-american president at the top of the pyramid, for its retro look, white and male. it's "mad men" goes to washington, except peggy's leaving. to look at the most important jobs in the government, in 2013, and see such a lack of diversity is just so drearily disappointing especially because it could easily have been so different. imagine the tableau of obama flanked by secretary of state nominee susan rice and defense secretary nominee michele flournoy. that would have been the ultimate you've-come-a-long-way moment. we've heard this since 2009. it's a guys club. "the new york times" has reported that, it's a guys club. he has guys golfing with him. he's got guys playing basketball with him.

women have complained quietly about being excluded at the white house since 2009. >> well, i think statistically president obama has more women in his cabinet than president bush did. i think as katty said, he would point to his first term when he did have hillary clinton, napolitano, sebelius, valerie jarrett is his top adviser. i think it goes without saying that if this were a republican president, it would be a national outrage. and it would be made into a larger point about the republican party being a party of only white men. so there is a double standard at work for sure. and i think it's a little surprising, frankly, that president obama didn't choose any women based on what he did in his first term which was to put women in high places. >> let's just erase his first term. >> that's what i just said. >> i know. >> yeah. >> secretary of state clinton. by the way, susan rice might have been there today had she not been completely routed out by a republican opposition that was quite frankly personal and cruel and completely out of

step. >> david axelrod said president obama never considered susan rice. >> talk about old guys being completely chauvinistic jerks, quite frankly, because she'd be there, joe. >> that's actually not what david axelrod said. he said the president never considered her. >> okay, that's cool. that's great. i don't believe it, actually. >> please don't call my good friend david axelrod a liar. >> we'll never know, actually, will we? >> seriously, a guy that has come here and shaved his mustache. >> an african-american woman pushed out of the way, completely pushed out of the way, by republicans. and if you look at the supreme court, as katty said, if you look at his policies he put in place, if you look at statistically the number of women who work in the white house, you're wrong. >> he's great. >> by the way, he's the first african-american president. >> is he really? oh! hold on. >> now you're going on to humor because you've got nothing. >> can i check that? >> you've got nothing here. >> first. i'm going to google it. african-american president. >> i think it's a joke, joe.

this is okay. >> do you really -- do you really -- >> the google says it's bill clinton. >> for people who would like more women in the cabinet? of course, like me, the second-term picks are disappointing that there isn't a senior woman up there as good as the first term. and that photograph, i tweeted yesterday, how depressing is it to see all men in that meeting room. you look at what he did in his first term. and mika's exactly right. in terms of the policies that he enacted, in terms of fair pay for women, putting women into the supreme court. this president has done more for women in his first term. >> you need to be quiet. >> i'm with you. the first thing he did when he got in office -- >> lilly ledbetter. >> lilly ledbetter, the first thing he did. >> that's the first piece of legislation he signed. >> he's done things for women. >> i'm just reinforcing what you said. what are you looking like me that for? >> i'm actually trying to ignore the -- i am afraid to use the word because it will not be good for you, okay? because you're being

chauvinistic right now. >> oh, am i really? >> and you need to stop, all right? i'm sorry. >> okay. >> this is not funny. >> no, it's not funny. it's not funny if you're a woman that works in the obama administration and you want to go to the highest rungs of that administration. it's not funny. and you can attack me and be personal and make personal attacks -- >> i'm not. >> -- against me. you've got a president that you worship on this show every day. you savaged mitt romney. he has a picture -- >> out of touch? >> -- that if a republican president had that cabinet in "the new york times" would be savaged, and you're calling the wrong guy a chauvinist. and seriously -- hold on -- you want to call me a chauvinist? >> stop. let me help you. >> no, let me help you. >> okay. >> you really, knowing me and seeing me work around here for five years, you want to call me a chauvinist on television? >> no. i'm saying that thing with katty was chauvinistic. >> you want to say that on

television, that i'm a chauvinist? >> i didn't. >> you did. >> i said the way you're acting is chauvinistic, especially the way you were handling this conversation. it's not funny. >> if that's what you're going to do because your president that you worship on this show every day is selecting men and even ruth marcus and other people who have said "the new york times" going back to 2009 have said that this white house is not a positive place for women. and you could look at the stories. if you want to attack me -- >> i'm not attacking you. >> -- as your only line of defense, go ahead. you already did. am i a chauvinist? am i a chauvinist? >> no, you are not. >> let's answer that question right now. >> the way that you conducted your office -- >> do i act like a chauvinist and in congress, the way i ran my office there, the way i run my office here? i am a chauvinist? >> no. but joe, you can't just laugh off -- >> read your own book! >> joe, you can't just laugh off an argument. >> you can't throw attacks around like that. >> okay.

all right. >> personal attacks. like that. because you're embarrassed about what barack obama's doing. >> i'm not. see, that's just not fair. i have been inside -- i worked with the white house on this issue. and i've seen it. and i'm very, very, very proud of what this president has done. it has nothing to do with worshipping him. but it has everything to do with opening doors for women in this country so there are more there. and in other very high levels of office across the country as we develop as a nation as it pertains to women. but these things can't happen without the proper policies in place and without the proper payment methods in place where women get paid equally to men, where they have equal reason to be at work every day. and by the way, in your defense, you've been an incredible champion on this, which is why i don't think you should laugh at us when we're making a point in this conversation because it undermines everything that you've ever done which is amazing when it comes to women in the workplace. >> it doesn't undermine anything

i've ever done, ever. >> i think it does, in my opinion. but we can agree to disagree. should we talk about -- >> what's next? >> no, we have to go to break. we've argued the whole block about women in the white house. coming up, governor dannel malloy, erskine bowles, and the star of "1600 penn" actor josh gad. up next, mike allen with the "politico playbook." first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning, mika and everyone out there. important things you need to know as you head out this morning. louisiana under a tornado watch, a couple tornado warnings down there. if anyone's traveling the northern rockies and northern plains, a major winter storm headed your way. by far the worst weather in louisiana. flash flooding throughout the central and northern portion of the state. that heavy rain is now moving into mississippi. there's the tornado watch box. it does not include new orleans, but it does include baton rouge, new iberia and up there on the border of mississippi.

possible tornadoes throughout this morning. they would be rain-wrapped tornadoes. you wouldn't know they were on top of you until they hit. keep that in mind. the other trouble out in the west. major winter storm from idaho to montana all the way through the dakotas, even salt lake city, utah, going to get significant snow later today. as far as the east coast goes, with all the stormy weather out to your west, all the warm air is pumped up the east coast. today up to 53 in washington, d.c. very nice. boston to new york and even into tomorrow, it looks like the warm weather holds for the eastern seaboard. actually, let's make that until the middle of next week, the warm air holds on the eastern seaboard. more to come here on "morning joe." we're brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] where do you turn for legal matters?

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time to look at "the morning

papers." boston has declared a public health emergency as the flu sweeps through the city. the city has already diagnosed 700 confirmed cases, ten times more than all of last year's flu season. "the new york times," at least 74 people were injured when a commuter ferry slammed into a dock in manhattan, throwing some passengers into the air, others falling down the stairs. witnesses said it felt like the ferry went full speed into the pier. the cause so far unknown. the ntsb is investigating. the washington post with hugo chavez bedstricken and battling cancer. the u.s. is working to make inroads. american diplomats are preparing for a post-chavez venezuela while trying to make progress with the drug-trafficking infrastructure and growing relationship with iran. "usa today," the fda will consider heavier regulation for the popular painkiller vicodin which has for years seen widespread abuse. the d.e.a. recommended it be classified with other heavily

used drugs like oxycontin. patients who need vicodin could increase the number of times they have to visit their doctor by limiting the number of pills that can be prescribed at each visit. "the chicago tribune," president obama's acceptance of corporate donations from companies like at&t at the inauguration marks a shift. the paper writes, quote, the relaxed rules reflect how obama has largely dropped his efforts to curb the role of money in politics because he once vowed to make central to his presidency. with us now, the chief white house correspondent with "politico," mr. mike allen with a look at the "playbook." good morning, mike. >> good morning, willie. you have insight into that fascinating meeting today at the white house between vice president biden and the nra. what can the vice president, what can the white house reasonably expect to get out of the nra today? >> the nra is going to go in there with a conciliatory face. they're being smart. they're sending not their top

lobbyist but an official who has worked with biden over the years, worked with him in the '90s in the senate, is actually friends with him from the delaware beach, jim baker, the nra's number two, but he's coming with a very hard message. the nra told me that in the past 18 days, their paid memberships have gone up 100,000. they've gone from 4.1 million to 4.2 million. and they tell me that before this debate is over, they want to get to 5 million. so the nra sees this fight as a growth opportunity. willie, it's $25 a year, you get a free camo duffel bag with that. and we're told that jim baker, the nra lobbyist, is going to tell vice president biden we're willing to discuss, talk to you about any possible constructive solution, but here's the kicker, we listen to people beyond the beltway elite. we listen to people beyond the

chattering class. we listen to real americans around the country. and the nra will say they are telling us not to go soft, not to support any dramatic gun measures. >> and the nra, really, you have to look at that constructive term and take it for what it means. what exactly will they do? you know, their constituency does not want any changes. they don't want to roll back any gun laws. so in negotiation, what can the white house reasonably expect to get out of them? they might have to go to executive orders here. in other words, it's a difficult partner to negotiate with who has no incentive to give to you. >> no, willie, that's very astute. and there's no negotiation here, as you suggested. vice president biden said yesterday the president is going to act on this. and if he can't get it through congress, he'll do it with executive order, will do it on his own executive action. but both sides get a lot out of this meeting today. for the white house, they now will have an answer to democratic senators from these gun-friendly states -- and there's a bunch of them -- who

would have said, we're not even listening to the nra. why aren't we lisping to them? so now the white house can say they listen. they got the credibility that comes with being at the white house, but you're right, not much is going to happen. also today the vice president will meet with a number of officials from the tv and movie industry. chris dodd, former senator, now the head of the motion picture association, the head of the national broadcasters, former senator gordon smith, the head of the cable television association, the former fcc chairman, michael powell. so a bunch of people from the entertainment industry coming in. what we don't know yet, are they also going to include people from video games? that's something the president has talked about. and also getting a visit coming up soon, walmart who is selling a lot of guns. >> jon, their gun sales are through the roof. they're another group with no incentive for change here. >> except doing the right thing, which is always a good thing. mike, quickly, have you gotten

any sense of the developing strategy with the nra for 2014, both in the house races and more importantly, in some cases, it's a little bit more below the radar, state legislative races which are more easily influenced by outside money? >> no, that's a great point. and the nra, as you know, is set up to work very heavily in the state races. this is, again, another place where they see it as an opportunity in addition to membership, they're going to be able to raise money to influence these races. while we're on legislative strategy, looking at capitol hill, we talked to both sides about how they plan to get gun legislation through when you're also looking at immigration, when you also have these three fiscal cliffs coming up, when you also now have these big, complicated nomination battles. we're told the vice president plans to deliver his report by the end of the month. they had originally hoped to have it a little earlier. so his recommendations will take a little while. they're still debating. do you do a bunch of individual

gun measures or one big gun package? i can tell you that on capitol hill, they would rather do individual ones. they think a big package is sure to sink. >> mike allen with a look at the "playbook." we'll see where this debate goes. thanks so much, mike. we'll see you. coming up next, the clippers demonstrate once again why they are the team to beat in los angeles. the lakers continue to struggle. highlights straight ahead. living with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis

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let's pause for some sports here. we already talked about the hall of fame. so a little nba for you. carmelo anthony's off-court confrontation with kevin garnett has earned him a one-game suspension from the nba. reportedly, garnett's trash talking about anthony's wife led to the on-court altercation and ejection, prompting, as you see here, carmelo waiting at the bus for kevin garnett. as the celtics left the locker room. espn reports anthony and garnett have spoken on the phone since the incident and patched things up. knicks and celtics meet again in boston two weeks from today. kevin garnett, a notorious trash talker and notoriously personal trash talker. >> in your opinion, the best or the worst. >> yeah. we'll spare you the details, but there were breakfast cereals

involved. that's cryptic and you can look it up. more from the nba. the lakers without pau gasol and dwight howard, trying to stop a four-game losing skid in san antonio. third quarter, lakers down 13. kobe from 32 feet. he had 27. still in the third, kobe drives, kind of slices through the entire de -- ooh, hangs and gets it to go. that started a 9-0 run for the lakers, get them back into the game. down to the final seconds, kobe puts up the three to tie. but it clangs off the front rim. lakers lose, now have lost five games in a row. their 15-20 record tied for fourth worst. the worst since 1960. >> how's that working for mike d'antoni out there? >> before the season, we thought it was a dream team but turned out to be an old team. >> nightmare team. >> it was. the lakers struggling but the clippers still hot, beat the mavs last night. they played their way to the nba's best record at 28-8. the lakers trail their crosstown

rivals in the standings by 12 1/2 games. how about that, clippers on top in l.a. up next, "mika's must-read opinions." keep it on "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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government after it faced widespread backlash. aig was considering joining a lawsuit, as we told you yesterday, over the bailout, arguing that the terms of the rescue package were too tough on its shareholders. newly elected senator elizabeth warren called the idea of suing the government outrageous, saying aig was, quote, biting the hand that fed them. public relations blunder came at a particularly bad time for the company which was looking to remake its image with a series of ads titled "thank you america." >> the leading global insurance company based right here in america. >> we've repaid every dollar america lent to us. >> everything, plus a profit of more than $22 billion. >> for the american people. >> thank you, america. >> helping people recover and rebuild. that's what we do. now let's bring on tomorrow. >> so they just rolled out those ads a week ago and then came out and threatened to sue the government. >> and on twitter, what we were asking yesterday, what would elizabeth warren do, is now becoming a, i don't know -- >> a hash tag? >> yes. exactly. >> that's huge.

>> what's the "i" for in aig, ingrate? >> they are not joining the lawsuit. editorial page of "the wall street journal" suggests that aig probably did the right thing by not joining the lawsuit, but it doesn't mean the lawsuit itself is not without merit, that there were some problems. >> so elizabeth warren, another woman that president obama hired to head up the consumer financial protection bureau and to have a more calm conversation about it. >> but she wasn't, of course, allowed to have that job. >> no, because the republicans pushed her out just like susan rice. but i'll have to say, now that things are less heated, i didn't like the approach that you took, but just for the record, you are not a chauvinist. >> you know what? that's great. >> i apologize for calling you one. >> you are not a racist. >> but i will say this. i was using it as an adjective. >> oh, okay. >> your entire career backs up what i just said. also, though, elizabeth warren

backs up the point i was trying to make in the first block of the show. which is there are fantastic women the president has -- >> what was my entire career -- back up. >> the fact that you were far from a chauvinist. >> okay. that's comforting to know. >> okay. >> because you disagree with me ideologically. >> i do sometimes. >> that i'm a chauvinist. >> no, i don't on that. so let's move on to "the washington post." george will. democrats' busted budget. democrats not allergic to ar arithmetic must know the cost of their fiscal cliff victory. when they flinched from allowing all of george w. bush's tax rates, especially those on middle-class what will be a long slide into ludicrousness. those temporary rates were

enacted in 2001, when only 28 house democrats supported them, and in 2003, when only seven did. but with the american taxpayer relief act of 2013, did liberals think about what title? permanent for all but 0.7% of taxpayers, liberals could have had a revenue increase of $3.7 trillion over ten years. instead, they surrendered nearly $3.1 trillion of that. mike barnicle, jon meacham, do you agree? >> well, in a sense, yeah. i mean, the fiscal cliff deal that they enacteded at the stroke of midnight on december 31st was a ludicrous deal. it really does very little long term. it does something for two months, right? gets us two months -- buys us two months' worth of time. i think we're in a period of time where more people think about the moment than they think about the country, which is a problem. >> and i think, you know, if you know george will, you know how much fun he had writing that paragraph. >> oh, yeah. >> because of the contrarianism. and by holding people intellectually accountable

for -- and ideologically accountable. it's a true point and a sign that for all the extraordinary -- for the extraordinary nature of president obama's re-election, you know, what george is writing here is that of a country that's very much in the middle and often tacks to the center-right. still ahead, we've got connecticut governor danenel mall malloy. also erskine bowles will be here to talk about what should be next in the ongoing debt debate. we'll be right back on "morning joe." [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up

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so last night was jimmy kimmel's second night in his new time slot. "jimmy kimmel live" at 11:35 now. the change caused some confusion, though, when another show unexpectedly interrupted his broadcast last night. >> it's wednesday night, and welcome to "the knife guys." >> hey, will. >> hey, jimmy. >> how's it going? >> what's up? >> nothing. just doing the show. what's up with you? >> now? >> yeah. abc moved us up to 11:35, so we're on earlier now. >> yeah, right. >> no, really, they did. what is this? what's going on here?

>> well, i use the studio at 11:30 on wednesdays for my qvc knife show. >> i didn't know. >> no, it's okay. i'll just go ahead and start. >> you know what? i'm in the middle of my show right now. >> i have knives to sell, kimmel, okay? knifers, only a few of these beauties left. say hello to the nonstick razor steel samurai stabmaster 2200. this thing literally cuts through warm butter like it's warm butter. >> that's great. well, that's fantastic. thank you, will. you're done? >> oh, not even close. >> oh. >> let's bring out my guest who has some more stuff to slice. ryan? >> what the hell are you doing here, jimmy? >> what am i doing? what are you doing? you're supposed to be my guest. >> we sell knives at 11:30. everybody knows that. >> i didn't know. >> there's a sign-up sheet. >> i've never seen the sheet. i don't know where he came from. >> we've been here for three months. >> i didn't know! i'm sorry. i don't know how this is my fault. >> it doesn't matter, ryan. let's get to chopping, huh?

cookie dough! cotton candy! chocolate milk! you always got to slice chocolate milk! >> chocolate milk. the knife guys. apparently weeknights at 11:35. >> we should do something like that. >> make sure you use the sign-up sheet. >> stabmaster. coming up next, former pennsylvania governor ed rendell and our good friend wes moore back with us. also "the washington post's" ezra klein. it's the cast of a thousand. the capital one cash rewards card gives you 1% cash back on all purchases, plus a 50% annual bonus. and everyone but her likes 50% more cash, but i have an idea. do you want a princess dress? yes. cupcakes? yes. do you want an etch-a-sketch? yes! do you want 50% more cash? no.

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this is not taking away people's guns. i own a gun. i own a remington shotgun. i've hunted. i've shot. that's not what this is about. it is about ending the unnecessary risk of high-capacity assault rifles. that's what this is about. i say to you, forget the extremists. it's simple. no one hunts with an assault rifle! no one needs ten bullets to kill a deer! and too many innocent people have died already! end the madness now! >> that is new york governor

cuomo yesterday giving an impassioned seech about g eed s hoped to get through in the legislature in new york. joining the table, the former governor of pennsylvania, nbc news political analyst, ed rendell, combat veteran of the united states army and a great man, wes moore. in washington, columnist for "the washington post," msnbc policy analyst, another great man, ezra klein. also bbc's katty kay in washington. notice you didn't get that preface. >> i noticed. >> what about barnicle? >> you, goes without saying. him, different story. on the topic of guns, today vice president joe biden will meet with representatives of the national rifle association as he prepares to hand president obama a list of recommendations on gun reform. during a meeting yesterday with victims of gun violence and gun safety groups, the vice president said president obama is ready to get gun reform done with or without the help of congress. >> we're here today to deal with

a problem that requires immediate action, urgent action. and the president and i are determined to take action. i want to make it clear that we are not going to get caught up in the notion unless we can do everything, we're going to do nothing. the president is going to act, executive orders, executive action that can be taken. we haven't decided what that is yet. of all the tragic events we've endured, i don't think anything has touched the heart of the american people so profoundly as seeing those young children not only being shot but riddled with bullets. every once in a while there's something that awakens the conscience of the country, and that tragic event did it in a way like nothing i've seen in my career. >> former president bill clinton, meanwhile, also speaking out on the issue of guns, telling an odd vens in

audience in las vegas, it's nuts. "there's going to need to be some armed guards in some schools where there is a higher crime rate and kids themselves may take weapons to school, absolutely. but it is not an excuse not to deal with the issue." during his state of the state address, as you heard governor cuomo propose what would be the toughest assault weapons ban in the country. he outlined a seven-point plan that would eliminate all high-capacity magazines, would also require background checks for gun sales, even transactions made between private parties. in connecticut, governor danell malloy struggled to contain his emotions during his state of the state address while reflecting on the mass shooting in newtown nearly one month ago now. >> in the midst of one of the worst days in our history, we also saw the best of our state. teachers and a therapist that sacrificed their lives protecting students.

a principal and school psychologist that ran into harm's way. our brave connecticut state troopers, newtown's local law enforcement and firemen and others that responded courageously. when it comes to preventing future acts of violence in our schools, let me say this. more guns are not the answer. let me be clear. freedom is not a handgun on the hip of every teacher. and security should not mean a guard posted outside every classroom. that is not who we are in connecticut, and it is not who we will allow ourselves to become. >> all right. a lot to talk about here. ezra, i want to start with you as a guy who analyzes policy very closely. what can we reasonably expect as

we broaden it out here nationally from these meetings with vice president biden and gun rights advocates? what will be different this time? i think in the immediate aftermath of newtown, people say something had to change, if not for the nra. the nra blocking progress on this question for people want gun control. will this time be different? >> it's not clear that this time will be different. remember, anything that they do -- vice president biden gestured towards the ability to use executive actions on a couple of issues. you can do a couple of things related to tracing data and other elements of how we do law enforcement on guns. you can't do a ton about gun law through executive action. anything they do will have to pass the house of representatives. you would not expect radal cal action on guns to go through the house of representatives. in fact, i'm not sure i'd expect it to be proposed by this administration. i do expect there to be movement on high-capacity magazines, on being able to trace data. i do expect there to be movement

on closing what some people call the gun show loophole. what really means is private transactions don't have essentially any real regulation around them. it's much larger than gun shows and about 30% to 40% of all guns are sold this way. and the assault rifle ban, that was a ban that had a lot of holes in it in the first place. it had a very difficult time defining what was and wasn't an assault weapon. it had a lot of cosmetic features to it. they tried to do it based on what they looked. i think it would be important to tighten that down, but i think most people think it was more significant in tightening the assault weapons ban. the final thing i'd mention is that we've had a very real success in the last couple of decades cutting gun death by focusing on illegal gun possession in law enforcement. so one thing that i would potentially expect to see are incentives to help spread some of those best practices we're seeing in new york and st. louis and places we've had real success there to other localities around the country. >> governor rendell, how did you

navigate this thorny issue in the state of pennsylvania where there is a high population of gun owners? how did you -- if you wanted gun control, say, in the city of philadelphia, how did you tackle that? >> i didn't. i didn't do it successfully at all because the legislature actually preempted cities and towns' ability to pass legislation in the gun field. that was an nra-sponsored thing. but this time i think it's different, and it has to be done federally. i admire governor cuomo. if you do a high-capacity magazine ban in new york and you don't have one in virginia, it's not going to do any good. this has to be done federally. and i think it can be done, willie, for two reasons. number one, it is different. the pact that gabby giffords and her husband are going to start, there's a new emphasis and new intensity, number one. number two, people are pretty clear now that nra members and gun owners themselves want change. that's where the weakness of the nra position is. frank luntz, a conservative

pollster, did a poll for mayor bloomberg's organization, found that 74% of nra members and 87% of gun owners want background checks before anybody can buy a gun in this country. we have to hammer that message across. and we also have to hammer the message across that the nra in most cases is the paper tiger. pennsylvania, second highest number of nra members of any state in the country. they opposed me three times when i ran statewide for governor. i won by 10 points, 12 points and 21 points. so tell me how tough they are. it's time for our people to stand up and do the right thing handgun violence. many of the handguns, i'm going to have to assume, are in the trunks of cars coming up from places like north carolina, south carolina where you buy guns, load up the trunk, come back and sell them on the street. talk about this issue. >> and the vast majority of them, you're absolutely right, they're illegal guns. when you look at the amount of homici homicides, the amount of people, children being maimed all throughout cities like baltimore, philadelphia, et cetera, these aren't necessarily being done by registered gun

owners. these are done by the fact that someone can walk down the street and get a gun easier than they can getting health care. and so you have this proliferation of guns that exists in cities like mine, in cities like all over the country that we also have to be able to address because fact is, even if we went and just banned assault weapons, even if we said okay bushmasters are no longer allowed, that's not going to affect the larger homicide rate of what we're seeing in so many cities because these are handguns and illegal handguns. i absolutely agree, the federal legislation federal mike needs to be put behind this and i believe it will. in fact, i think the vice president might have tipped the president's hand on this one as well. also, though, what i've been really impressed by, seeing how state legislators, municipalities are actually taking this issue on as well. and they're saying you know what, there are things we can do from our standpoint that can actually then help curb the amount of gun violence. also one thing we see is there are laws that the atf has on the books that municipalities and state governments have had no authority whatsoever in terms of enforcing.

maybe this can help push that as well. we can get local, state and municipal officers working on issues and helping close laws that the atf has been at this point completely ineffectual of being able to close as well. >> jon meacham, what about the fact that the people wes is talking about, gngs, drug dealers, even if handguns were illegal, will find what they want to do. drugs are illegal. i can have anything you want here in about 30 minutes. >> really? >> well, not me, per se. you could theoretically. i just revealed too much, clearly. but you can make them illegal with people who want to do bad things, the argument goes, will find a gun. >> sure. but as joe said in his editorial the morning after monday after the shooting, we can't make the perfect the enemy of the good. >> right. >> i have two thoughts on this. one is it's time to save guns from gun owners. it's like saving liberalism from liberals and religion from the religious. extremist-dominated debate where

most people who are involved, who own guns, who might use them for sporting purposes aren't in favor of these assault weapons. they're not -- these things are made, these high-capacity magazines, these weapons, are made to simulate a kind of military-style engagement. here's my suggestion. anyone who wants to do that should volunteer to go join the military. >> ask wes moore about that. >> yeah. and go deal with that. so it's time for moderate people -- i own guns. it's time for people like me who own guns, who think that -- but think that the extremists have gone too far to actually take a stand on it. the second point -- and chris christie was making this point yesterday -- is it's not just about guns. and this goes to your question. it's about violence. and it's about the video games. and it's about culture. and that's not a bill. that's not a piece of legislation.

it's a broad hour-to-hour household-to-household battle that requires parents, teachers, everyone to be engaged. and i think being engaged in terms of trying to shift the culture doesn't -- isn't necessarily helped if you're armed. >> katty kay, i guess it was the monday or tuesday after newtown, we had senator joe manchin come on. a very proud member of the nra. with an "a" rating, said it's time for us and the nra to look at ourselves and make shchanome changes. a lot of people thought that might open up a larger discussion. that hasn't necessarily happened. we haven't seen a lot of people line up behind joe manchin to look at the nra and say hey, we need to moderate ourselves or we need to be at least open to some change. so do you think at this moment that this time is different, or has the moment passed in some ways? >> you know, i think we are living in a time when there is slightly a culture of instant

amnesia where -- and maybe it's to do with the amount of media we have access to. it's like we gorge ourselves on a story, and then after a few days, it's gone. and that happens, unfortunately, at a policy level but also from a viewer level. and so the urgency seems so intense at the time. and it certainly did -- i was up in newtown for four days at the time, and it seemed like the whole country was focused on this. you had not just manchin, you had senator warner come out and speak about this. you had congressman from kentucky come out and speak about this. we thought perhaps that was going to be the beginning of a national dialogue of people who did have a good rating with the nra coming out and saying maybe we need to have at least gun control as part of the conversation. as you say, joe, that hasn't really happened and it's going to be interesting to see what happens now in new york. already the gun rights groups have come out and said they are going to lobby the republican state senators in new york very hard in order to make sure that what andrew cuomo wants to do doesn't actually happen in the

state. that there isn't some kind of tough restriction. so that's going to be an interesting test case in terms of the rest of the country and how much the gun control groups still feel that they can have an influence with elected officials because that's going to affect what happens here in washington, if anything happens here in washington. one thing i would pick up on what jon meacham said is it is about a culture of violence. of course it is. but there is that culture of violence in countries around the world. they have violent video games in japan, in switzerland, in european countries, in australia, but they don't have the levels of mass killings that have hatppened in america. and the difference there is access and the amount of guns in the country. >> that's a good point. >> one of the elements of this whole discussion that is ongoing now in this country led by the vice president in terms of getting federal legislation has to do with something that we gloss over, i think, in the media when we cover it. andrew cuomo got to it yesterday when he said, in effect, we're

not coming after your guns. that's not what this is about. coming after your guns. but we don't focus on that enough in terms of putting together proposed legislation, i think, governor. >> i think that's right. and i think it has to be narrow. i heard your first hour, willie, about whether they put a comprehensive bill or a narrow bill in. put them up one by one. who's going to vote against high-capacity magazines, limiting them? and the key to this is going to be suburban republicans in all of the cities around the country. i've got four suburban republican congressmen. i wrote an op-ed piece on the four changes we need, essentially gun show loopholes, high-capacity magazines, assault rifles. and i said, what are you going to do? are you going to stand with your constituents, or are you going to stand with an nra that doesn't even represent their members' views on this? pressure on them is not going to go away. and katty's wrong about one thing. i think this is different. yesterday we saw the ad released by mayors against violence where

the mother of the 9-year-old who was killed in the gabby giffords shooting, that 9-year-old girl whose only sin was she went to see her idol, the woman, congresswoman gabby giffords who got gunned down. she's not going to quit. the victims of aurora and tucson and virginia tech, we're going to keep this up until we force those congressmen, some democrats, too, to take a stand. are you with us, or are you with the nra? are you with the american people, or are you with the nra? and jon's right and wes is right. this isn't going to solve crimes on the streets. but it may make mass murders less likely to happen. and when they do happen, the carnage would be limited. remember, loughner was only stopped in tucson, the guy who shot giffords, because he had to reload. had he to reload. if he had to reload after ten shots, instead of 33 shots, maybe that 9-year-old girl is still alive. and isn't that worth achieving? >> but i have to say, i do think this is a very unique moment where we cannot -- when he we

can tackle the issues of the newtowns and the issues of the auroras, but also tackle all these larger gun issues that are taking place, being able to address mental health, being able to address the larger disparities that are existing where someone finds it rational and reasonable to go out and take someone's life. i mean, you look at chicago or philadelphia or baltimore. last year baltimore, 215 homicides. a handful of them were by assault weapons. the vast majority of them were by illegal guns, guns that were not registered by anybody, that are complete proliferation all throughout our nation's cities. i think now is a very unique opportunity where we can tackle this issue. and we can mobilize not just the parents from aurora and the parents from newtown, but also parents all around the country who have been saying we've been dealing with this for decades. and nothing's been said. now is the time when we can put together something comprehensive and something that's also real. >> but limited to the degree that mike's point is made, that we're not coming after the ordinary person's right to bear arms. >> absolutely. absolutely. >> and that's an important point. this is not a new problem.

not in the inner city. >> one thing that is new is that gun technology like all technology keeps getting more sophisticated. and so these weapons are getting even more deadly. so it's something that is getting worse because, as the governor says, the ability, the literal capacity to kill so many people in such a short period of time wasn't as -- was not as prevalent, was not as possible ten years ago. >> ezra, i want to shift gears just a little bit and get to a piece you're writing today about the president choosing his chief of staff to head the treasury department. ezra writes, in part, "president obama's personnel strategy has changed over the years. when he first took office, his hiring choices were notable for the wide net he cast. but after that initial burst of hiring, obama has shown a clear preference for what some allies call line-of-sight promoting. what they mean is the president likes to promote people in his

direct line of sight. it makes sense for the president to prize past experience and a proven ability to get along with his team. but viewed together, the appointments have become very strange, and a frequent source of speculation among democratic insiders. the fact is the white house has not name an actual actual to their economic team since taking office." ezra, is this a big problem for the president? >> it's hard to say if it's a big problem. i think it's become an increasing problem. and it's just become to some degree increasingly strange. as i say in the piece, there's not any one of these appointments you could look at and say well, that didn't make sense. jack lew makes sense at treasury. it made sense to replace peter orszag, gene spurling and then austin goolsby with allen krueger. you have to wonder, can it really be the case that this white house, after four very difficult years in which people are very tired, in which they're very burnt out, in which they've been worn down by endless battles with the republicans,

and in which the sort of natural dynamics of group thinking in a tightly knit administration have taken over, can it really be the case if they can benefit from bringing in new people with new voices and new experiences and a fresh perspective? a lot of people i talk to, some of them former members of the administration, think at this point that it is a big problem, that at this point the president needs to get out of his comfort zone in some of these appointments particularly on the economics side and bring in folks with a new perspective. yet that's balanced by the fact that they don't think jack lew is a bad guy or going to be a bad treasury secretary, but at some point there has to be a place in the administration for someone new. >> ezra, isn't it right that this is historically a question in second terms where you end up, sometimes you get people who aren't tired, who are fresh, who are willing to take the price of the confirmation and possibly getting held up by the senate and all of that who do help make a difference? i'm thinking about bob gates after 2006 with president bush.

but there's also sometimes you get, as chris matthews once said, you start getting the second and third string. so there's a balancing act here as the clock winds down. >> i think that's right. i don't think we're looking at a second and third-string problem at this point. jack lew is by any measure a first-string civil servant. but i think your broader point is correct. you think about the bush administration. you saw hank paulson come in at treasury, bob gates at defense. i think both proved to be important in their roles. that doesn't need you need quite the same changeover. one lien is that the predecessors were considered failures. tim geithner's tenure has been controversial but i think broadly speaking what he did to write the financial system will be considered a tremendous achievement in the annals of economic policy-making. but again, they are in something of a rut, i think, in their economic policy-making at this point, and particularly in their approach to dealing with republicans. a lot of that, i'd say frankly the bulk of that blame falls on the house republicans and john boehner. but it's nevertheless a case that they just put somebody into

the treasury department who they intend to have lead a lot of their budget battles who john boehner at this point essentially refuses to work with. during the 2011 negotiations, they said boehner and the republicans said we just don't want to deal with lew anymore. we don't feel we can get him to say yes to us. now, to some degree that might be because lew is reflecting the will of the president, but i just think there's a kind of a siege mentality a little bit at the white house that's showing up in their appointments, which is understandable, but i'm not sure in the long run it's going to be healthy. >> wes? >> ezra, it seems -- and i take a little bit of a different take on this because it seems like when you look at recent history of the selections of particularly treasury secretaries in a second term, they are "a," not only people that the presidents are close with, but they're also people who in many ways doubled down on what the president talked about during the campaign and the economic direction that the president wants to go in. whether you look at the selection of james baker during the reagan administration, you look at the selection of bob ruben during the clint. administration, or if you look at the selection of a hank paulson succeeding john snowe in

the second bush term. these are people who not only the president's personally close with but people who very much continue to compound on what the president said is going to be their economic issues. and doesn't jack lew do that as well? >> i don't think i'd agree that paulson fits that pattern. i don't think bush and him were personally close. i think he was somewhat in a different world. and yes, again, i don't have -- i'm not arguing with the jack lew appointment. i think it makes a lot of sense. i think he's an incredibly good public servant. what i'm saying is in totality, you have a set of economic positions, council of economic advisers, national economics council, office of management and budget, treasury secretary and a handful of others that matter. and you're not seeing anybody new brought into any of them. and i think it is somewhat unusual to have the totality of the economic team, there has not been one outsider brought into the economic team since the initial round of appointments in 2009. that i do think is rare and unusual. and again, they have a lot of very good people. these people do make sense in the positions they're in. but at this point, after four

years, it's hard to believe that new people couldn't be of use. >> all right. ezra klein, read more of ezra thewashingtonpost.com. katty kay, thanks as well. wes, you leaving? are we going to lose you? wes has to go. >> if you're playing treasury secretary "jeopardy!" -- >> that was good. >> that was impressive. albert gallatin for $300. >> see, he had to one-up you. >> exactly. >> that's awful. >> it was great. >> you went to the $1,000. >> meacham -- >> john snowe. >> who was the last woman secretary of treasury? >> of the treasury? jon? >> i don't think there's been one. >> edna -- >> this is like the senior version of "jeopardy!." wes, good to see you. we miss you in new york city, but you're doing good work in baltimore. coming up next, connecticut governor danell malloy. we showed you that clip.

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♪ keep me in your heart for a while ♪ in the midst of one of the worst days in our history, we also saw the best of our state. teachers and a therapist that sacrificed their lives protecting students. a principal and school psychologist that ran into harm's way. our brave connecticut state troopers, newtown's local law enforcement and firemen and others that responded courageously.

>> joining us now from hartford, we have the democratic governor of connecticut, dannel malloy. good to see you. that was extremely moving during, i guess, your state of the state yesterday in hartford. >> yep. >> i've been watching the coverage of lawmakers, especially those that cover areas of connecticut that have gun manufacturers dealing with this very difficult political and now deeply personal issue to your state. >> well, you know, it's a world of difference since december 14th, you know. as i said in that speech yesterday, i don't think anyone in connecticut would have imagined this playing out in any one of our beautiful towns or city, and yet it's come home here in one of the most idyllic communities in our state in many ways. we lost 20 babies, 20 children, 20 first graders lost their lives along with six adults.

that's a lot of people. and we need to have a common-sense discussion about what do we do to limit that, limit that exposure that we have in this nation? these high-capacity magazines, they don't make any sense in our country. we don't need those things. nobody's going deer hunting with them. you don't use that to protect your house. i mean, this has gotten crazy. and we just need to close some loopholes and make sure that guns can't be sold at shows in florida and virginia and work their way up to philadelphia where 219 people get killed or work their way up to bridgeport, new haven, stamford and norwalk, those guns shouldn't be coming up to our part of the country. we don't allow the sales of many of those types of guns in our state. and yet you can go to places where no one's doing the kind of checking, and no one's doing the background. so let's just do the common-sense things. let's make our country safer. let's make our children safe again. and yeah, we also have to talk about mental health.

we have to destigmatize mental health treatment. most people who suffer from some sort of mental health malady, that's temporary. but what we have to do is make sure they get the help they need as soon as they come forward or as soon as it's identified as a problem. if we do that, we're going to lower crime and these kinds of needless killings. and yeah, we've got to have an honest debate about our glorification of violence. you know, there were games on the market that actually talked about shooting in high schools. it doesn't make any sense. can't we just do the things that simply make some sense, that we could have reasonable agreement on? >> governor, in terms of making sense about this proposed legislation or legislation that's already on the books, the country is led by your voice, by andrew cuomo's voice yesterday, by several other governors. but within the need to reform what's going on in this country, don't we really need federal legislation encompassing all 50 states? and if so, give me four or five

specifics that you would like to see included in federal gun legislation. >> limit magazines. under the assault weapons ban which was allowed to go away, you couldn't have had the clips that that young man took into the sandy hook school. it would not have been possible. that's a common-sense example. close all loopholes. every gun purchase has to have the same rigor attached to it regardless of where it occurs in our country. those are two things that would make a gigantic difference in the amount of violence that's taking place in our urban environments and yes, under these circumstances where somebody goes in and shoots up a movie theater or shoots up a school. let's take the steps that make the most sense today. i had a great conversation yesterday with vice president biden. and i know he is preparing his recommendations to the president. and i don't want to get into the details of the discussion, but he's got this down pretty well. he understands what we need to do to make it less likely that

these things are going to happen in our cities and towns and these mass murders could be limited at least going into the future if some common-sense things are taken. the magazine thing is very big. >> wes. >> and it seems like a large part of the issue as well is there are actually laws that are sitting on the becomes, laws that are supposed to be enforced by atf and federal authorities that they have not had the capacity to be able to enforce. where does that fall into the larger conversation as well, and what can states and municipalities do to actually enforce what's there right now, but we have been woefully insufficient in terms of making sure it actually happens? >> but let's not go in that direction as if it's an excuse to continue to sell large magazines or it's an excuse to continue to allow the sale of guns without the same rigor of background checks. those are separate discussions. and to have the discussion that you want me to have -- and i'll have it, by the way -- should not be allowed to take us away from the main issue. we should not be selling weapons

that have no other use than -- potential use or are designed for anything but an assault. it doesn't make sense. having said that, you're right. this is an environment where people don't want to pay more taxes. agencies don't have the number of funds to do everything that they can otherwise do under the law. that's true. but that is not an excuse for continuing our behavior the way that we've done it. >> oh, i wholeheartedly agree with you. and i can tell you as someone who has seen -- been exposed, served in the military for ten years as a combat veteran, there are weapons that are currently on the streets -- there are weapons currently in our neighborhoods that are more powerful than anything that we saw while we were overseas fighting. and there are laws attached to it. i'm agreeing you with you that the high-capacity magazines, it does need to be addressed. my fear is that as we're looking at these laws, are we going to do something? i just don't want to do something that is going to be completely necessary, but when you look at the larger scheme of things, that we can do something that's also sufficient in terms

of addressing not just the large-scale massacres but also the larger gun violence that's going on in our communities? >> yeah, sure. and there are. and let's be very clear. and i said this in my speech yesterday. as long as we have different laws that make it substantially easier to buy weapons without sufficient background checks in states like virginia and florida, because we're on i-95, the road system that runs from florida through maine, we're going to see those weapons come into our state. let's close those loopholes. i mean, they're just practical things that we need to do. the interest of people who go to these gun shows shouldn't supersede the interests that i have in protecting my children and my citizens in my state. >> ed rendell? >> dan, don't let up. i think the question here now is that we can't let this issue go away. the mayors have done a good job, but governors like you and cuomo have got to keep the pressure on washington. let's make this an intense, top

of the radar screen issue. >> ed, we served as mayors together for a period of time. until the last two years, it got pretty frustrating because nobody was listening. mayor bloomberg -- i think i was the fifth mayor to join that campaign nationally. this is important stuff. we're now focused. you can't have what happens in aurora and my good friend john hickenlooper did an outstanding job handling that situation, but none of us need to be put in these situations anymore. and i have to tell you, in the newtown case, those 30 clips, you know, you take a whole bunch of those into a school or you take a whole bunch of those into a theater, you only have one intention. >> governor dannel malloy, thank you. >> good work. >> i'm so sorry. >> thank you. still ahead, debt crusader erskine bowles will be here with his ideas on how to fix the debt. maybe he ought to chair a presidential commission on that. we're back in just a moment.

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up next, we know governor chris 'ttie is on the cover of s week's "time," but how does the gvrn governor feel about his cover?

we'll share that with managing editor rick stengel next. a hint, rick may not want to get pulled over for speeding in new jersey any time soon. okay, it's a hint for all of us. we'll be right back. [ woman ] if you have the audacity to believe

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i'd like to thank eating right, whole grain, multigrain cheerios! mom, are those my jeans? [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, "time" magazine manage manage editor, rick stengel. good to have you. >> you didn't say that with any conviction, mika. >> you did this. >> yes. the real boss. governor christie with due deference to bruce springsteen. we call christie the boss. i know you had him on yesterday. he's the man of the hour. he's been everywhere. we make the case in our story that in a way, he represents what people were yearning for and didn't see in president obama when he was running for

re-election. somebody who spoke candidly and bluntly, without a filter, who said what he felt and did what he thought was right. and that's what people are liking about chris christie. and, of course, the way he handled sandy was exemplary. and it showed something that you don't often or always see, a kind of emotional empathy and attachment to the people who are suffering. and i think people realized that and felt that and appreciated that. >> we've been talking about that on the show, about him being a real player. and i'm trying to figure out -- alex, where's his reaction to the cover, which we teased? because he doesn't like it, apparently. oh, on screen. "i'm reporting "time" magazine to the anti-italian defamation league. i mean, come on, i can't wait for that to come home for my kids to see it." oh. well, i think he looks good. >> if the kids don't recognize him as the boss, then he has more problems than we realize. >> that's hilarious. >> i think he's having fun with

it. we had some fun with it. in fact, there's a lovely anecdote in the story where he worships springsteen, and he's been to over 100 concerts. and bruce never acknowledged him. never said anything about him. he had never met him. and finally after the hurricane, president obama put them on the phone together. it was like a big mideast negotiation. bruce springsteen and christie. and they had this talk. and then they embraced. and christie wept. so all is right with the world when the two bosses are together. >> so -- yeah, don't cry when you meet a rock star if you're governor. joe klein talked about the president having a second chance. >> yes, he's saying we've seen a new barack obama since he was re-elected, a more forceful one, more determined president. you know, joe is bullish on what can happen during a second term, and he thinks that the hagel

choice was a bold one. and i think, you know, obama has, you know, political leverage. elections have consequences, and he's saying everybody's got to face up to it. >> yeah, second terms are usually a curse. jon meacham? >> mixed bag. >> mixed bag. >> mixed bag. >> how do things line up historically for this president? >> you know, i keep thinking about president reagan, obviously. because he needed a big tax deal and he got one. and he was carrying on the main work because he didn't go to geneva, remember, until '85 in dealing with the soviets. people remember reagan's second term for iran-contra which i think is a little unfair given the magnitude of the cold war achievement that unfolded then. president clinton impeachment. and just kind of a wasted couple of years. president bush, in the last two years of his sort of the post-rumsfeld period, i think by common consent was doing better.

one of the things that happens is, we were talking about it with ezra klein, is sometimes you get people who are tired. your team gets tired. and then if you get new people in, sometimes they're learning, they have to learn fast. and so the other thing we absolutely know is that to get big things done domestically, you only have two years, at most. >> the first two years, you mean. >> yeah, the first two years. >> the obama said i've read all the literature of overreach in second terms. it doesn't seem like the problem is overreach in second terms, it's getting tired, it's entropy. >> you look at reagan's focus in '82, '85, '86, they were missing things. when they went to europe, they were shopping for mercedes instead of figuring out whether ronald reagan went to ss cemeteries. same thing with george w. bush's people. by 2005, 2006, post-katrina,

post-war, there was just such fatigue in that white house. i think it's just sheer exhaustion. you've been an executive. the second term has to be a lot tougher than the first on any level. >> you've got to push back and fight, and it comes from the leader. if the leader looks tired, if the leader looks disinterested, i think everybody takes the cue. but i think circumstances -- the challenges that we face on a relatively short time line are going to make this second term different. i mean, we've got to do something about the debt, and it has to be real, and he has to lead. and then we've got to do something about guns, immigration, energy. these things aren't -- you can't put them on hold for four years, joe. so if i'm the president, i'm energized. and i use the debt to resolve the debt in a way that doesn't have blood on the floor. i use the debt to segue into dealing with all those other tough issues. build a coalition, a working coalition. i still think we can do it. maybe i'm naive. i think if the president leads, he can build a coalition and get

things done on those crucial issues. >> the other thing we don't know, you know, when you have a second term, you are obviously the unexpected has more opportunities to happen. eisenhower is a good example. you never know, franklin roosevelt and the second world war, you know. there's -- things will happen. he will have to confront that we can't know about now. >> it has been -- talking about the unexpected. talk about newtown. that does give the president an opportunity to do some of the things he wanted to do. when we interviewed him for person of the we are, he was focused on the issues that, i think, he will focus on in the second term. immigration, talked about that extensively. criminal justice systems, new things. i'm -- optimistic. energy, he talked about energy, too. >> had the story how to grow the me. five steps of growing the economy. >> very smart piece about -- everybody is saying, look, we are -- you know, things seem like nothing is happening.

in fact, what -- why are we so focused on the deficit when woe should be focus order growth? growth is the thing that will reduce the deficit. five things to do in terms of goosing the economy and a smart piece. alternative energy and the use of shale gas. one of the problems apparently is we don't actually have the railroad lines in the way of shipping gas from west to east so we are still importing gas from the middle east because the refineries are on the east coast. things like that that are real solvable problems that can help the economy. >> with all due respect to chris christie, i think you majored in the minors of "time" magazine the story of the week, perhaps, the story of the year. i expect -- to be person of the year for "time" magazine. you have crammed right here in the front. alabama wins a national championship. >> joe, we were looking for to you write that. couldn't find you. >> squished in. i don't understand. by the way, look next to that,

you talked about richard ben crime other the show there one of the great -- one of the great presidential campaign books ever, it is just -- the best. there's not -- not -- actually not a close second. >> the best. >> i remember reading after it came out the story about joe biden thinking he was going to die before surgery and calling his sons to his side and saying don't worry if i die today, on this table -- i'm going to be proud of you. the dole stuff. >> dole stuff was powerful. >> hanging himself up by -- you know, with his one strong-arm, by the rafters. there are so many stories in there that really made you empathetic. >> here is a trivia question i believe governor rendell will know the answer to. when dole was running for president, there was another republican running for president who was also from russell,

kansas. who is that man? >> specter. bob dole and arlen specter grew up in the same town. little town in russell, kansas. >> i did a story that cycle on dole and drove into russell, kansas, and stopped for gas. they have fantastic mugs of the would of them, two sons of russell. i -- i still have that today. >> that's good. >> all right. new cover of "time" magazine the boss and the boss doesn't like the picture. rick stengel, thank you very much. still ahead -- from the campaign to fix the debt, irskin bowles. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. meet the 5-passenger ford c-max hybrid. when you're carrying a lot of weight,

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♪ you have a position on this ril ondollar coin business? >> i would simply go back to what i said. the option here is for congress to do its job and pay its bills. >> do you believe you have this power to -- >> there is no plan b. there is no backup plan. there is -- congress' responsibility to pay the bills of the united states. >> a little evasive in your answer. i-i understand. are you -- are you trying to leave room or not? >> look, there's no substitute for congress extending the borrowing authority of the united states. >> an option.

viable, unviable? >> i think the only option is there is month backup plan. the only option is for congress to do its job. >> welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle and ed rendell are still with us. joining us, former chief of staff and co-founder of the campaign to fix the debt, erskine bowles joins us. it is great to have you. >> mika, like you said, this guy that's really good at things lie th ing like that, maybe he should be put on a commission. come up with a great idea and we can fix the debt. >> perfect. >> what i would like to do. quickly, cleaning up here. david axelrod wanted me to say -- i think this is fair -- about susan rice. he said i never said -- never said that the president had never considered susan rice, said he had considered her, but he had just never heard that that was his choice. so -- >> i had heard he really wanted

her for the position and really considering her from other people. but, you know what, since you bring it up, we love this show. we had a great heated conversation at the top of the 6:00 about -- numbers of -- >> binders. >> about the numbers of women serving in the president's cabin cabinet. i actually have a list of high-ranking women in the white house. but i'm going to hold that. >> good, read that. >> you know what -- there are good points to be made on both sides of this. this is one of the biggest arguments we ever had. some of the bigger ones, torture -- you were right on that. >> wrong on that one. >> i will say i did use a bad word perfect tank you and i'm very sorry about that because you are not chauvinistic. of all the people that work here at msnbc, you are not a chauvinist. i didn't love -- >> and you are not a racist. >> it is getting like -- massive, massive reaction on twitter.

>> why don't you refer them to your book you wrote about. >> i should. >> okay. >> because -- >> read my book about what i do. >> right. i wrote a book about it. that's how proud i am of you, actually. but i think it is -- you know, it is a good -- it is an incredibly good argument to have. >> let me just say this. because i think it is important for the american people to know that they are their talk show host is not a crook. so we can check that off. i'm sorry. that's a mixed reference. >> happy birthday. >> all right. if i did, i apologize. >> all right. >> it is fine. >> all good. it is definitely not fair to take everything that have you done and sum it up in one word which is not what we do on this show. so i do apologize. >> the interesting thing was -- i watched you. interesting thing is you were both right. >> really?

>> you were both right. the president has done a good job. but he has been a little tone deaf to the way things look recently. that's important. symbolism is important for the very point joe made. the 9-year-old girl to look up and see the adjunct general of pennsylvania, the head of the national guard. that says to her, i can go in the military and do that. there are optics to it as well we are both right. let's listen to p tooltition. erskine, what's going on in washington? >> unbelievable. >> what's going on in washington. you know, i -- the democrats don't put out a budget. that's just driven me crazy. they have been reckless on entitlements. the republicans -- my house republicans, they put out a spending plan that cuts spending

that is month where near what you guys proposed. and -- we just keep getting deeper and deeper in debt. mob in washington is fixing it. >> i tell you, joe, to me, it is -- it is the most disappointing thing in my life. what's going on in washington, nothing. absolutely nothing. we are bouncing from one crisis to another. as you say, they can't have a budget. they are financing the world's largest economy for month-to-month to month. it is nuts. we have -- an enormous fiscal problem in this country. it is a problem that my generation created. it is our responsibility to clean it up. and that's what we have to do. we have to put our big boy and big girl pants on and go to work. >> it is going to be hard. it is going to hurt. >> sure. yeah. first thing we say to -- problems are real. the solutions are painful. there's month easy way out. >> we talked about the commission and the report and why -- it got passed on and we

have all been frustrated about that. how do you think the republicans handled the fiscal cliff deal in terms of being serious about spending? >> i don't think -- i don't think anybody gets a gold star on their head in either party. you know, we always seem to get up to the -- we are going to have, you know, major deal and back away. and -- you know, that's no way to sol avenve a problem. when we balanced the federal budget hi to spend months and months -- as you remember, joe, locked up in conference rooms with newt gingrich and trent lott. together we worked it out. we came away with a balanced budget to put the country on the right fiscal path. we can do it again but we have to put some of the ultra partisan politics away. we have to put some of this aside and decide where we are going to pull together important the country and we can do. >> it the point you made is absolutely true, too. we have to mentally accept that it is going to be pain. there are constituents and bases that are not going to be totally happy but that's how you govern.

you govern by doing difficult thing. you don't govern by doggiesy things. it is going to be tough. but what we have sketched out in the campaign to fix the debt, another $1.7 trillion in spending cuts if you count the interest, and $600 billion more in revenue, that would put us overall at where? >> $4.7 trillion in deficit reduction. that's enough to stabilize the debt and get it on the downward path. that's got to be the goal. we get to debt below 7% below gdp and decline in the future. we have to do stuff that's real. no sense talking about, you know, just working it to edges. we have to make real cuts. one of things that's in that proposal, it is about $600 billion worth of cuts in health care programs. if we don't slow the rate of growth of health care, it is going to eat up the entire budget and virtually bankrupt the country. >> as you know, i'm an economic

illiterate. >> sure. >> i keep reading we is v a campaign to fix the debt from paul krugman who is always slashing and cutting at and you al simpson and commission and the commission's recommendation. >> sure. >> saying that's not the big priority. the big priority is employment the big priority is more governor expenditures to create employment. what do you have to say to that? >> i say if we don't fix this debt, if we don't reduce our spending, then we are not going to have any money leftover to spend on anything else. it is a little bit like admiral mullen said when he was asked what our greatest national security problem is. he said it is these deficits because they will consume every dollar of resource we have. take for example the interest payments we have today. we spend about $230 billion a year now on interest costs alone. even these low rates, you know if rates were at their median level, we would be spending about $650 billion. but even if these -- at these

low levels we spend more on interest today than we spend in the department of commerce, education, energy, homeland security, interior, justice, state combined. >> let's talk about all of the revenue we got in this past year. all the taxes we got in this past year. what did that pay for in our government? >> very little. it is about $600 billion over ten years. that's about $60 billion a year. that's the am we are spending to clean up all the hurricane sandy. that's not going to make a big difference. $1.2 trillion deficit right now. >> all of the money that the federal government -- you told me this one time. all the money the federal government took in last year, i guess, went to pay medicare, medicaid, social security, and what? interest on the debt? >> 100% of the money we took in last we are was spent on interest on the debt and mandatory spending, mandatory spend sing principally what we

spend on entitlement. >> that's already sucking up every single dollar. >> every dollar we spend today on the war, on national security, on homeland security, education, infrastructure resource, every dollar borrowed. >> i want to ask you about jack, if we could. "wall street journal" editorial board has a tough piece here. team of liberal loyalists. and they are writing about this. white house budget director in the clinton era, viewed as reasonable liberal they could do business with. but as budget direct wror and chief of staff in the obama white house, mr. lew has been the president's most partisan negotiator. he's met with fierce deep fender of entitlements in their current form, resists all but token spending restraint and favors higher tax rates. in taking these positions, he no doubt reflects mr. obama but no

one should think he will emerge as his own man at treasury. would you agree with that? how does that impact everything we are talking about right here, right now? >> i think jack lew is terrific. he worked with me side by side important several years. i thought he offered splinterivic advice. he is smart. he's knowledgeable. and he works hard. he gets the job done. and done right. he's a leader in every sense of that word. is he liberal? you bet. is he more liberal than i am? you bet. but he will offer the president his advice but i guarantee you he's also a great soldier and when the president makes a decision, jack lew will march forward. >> i have heard some people that have been covering this. we just heard from "wall street journal" he does not want to touch entitlements in a meaningful way. is it possible to cut the national debt while -- >> it is not true he doesn't want to touch entitlements in any way.

it is impossible, impossible, to solve our long-term fiscal problem without making significant cuts in health care and you would making social security sustainably softer. >> you alluded earlier to dealing with congress and joe was in the house, trent lott was in the senate. hashing things over months and months of meetingings. am i mistaken the congress is so polarized, more polarized than the country is, that now the country finishes second to their own ideological ambitions within the congress? >> all i can tell you is -- you know, you couldn't have had would people that were further apart than bill clinton and newt gingrich. both really smart guys. no question about that but they were willing to put the partisanship aside and do what they felt was right for the country. so both of them made significant concessions in the budget negotiations that we have. ing in fact, if you remember, one of the things that we did is

we made pretty tough cuts in medicare. because we had to. we didn't have any choi. if we wanted to put our fiscal house in order. was it worth it? you bet. >> it couldn't happen today? >> i won't say it couldn't happen today. i think it is more difficult to happen today. i still believe that there's a deal out there. er with going to have to work at it. but i think there is a deal out there, we have -- you know, the three man-made economic crises coming up we have to deal with. but i think out of that, we will be able to negotiate something that makes sense. >> erskine, don't you think one of the president's big challenges -- first he has to make a deal with the republicans and the leadership. but he has to convince us, we democrats, that there's going to be pain on our base as well. and i think in the end, whatever deal is going to require more democratic votes than republicans, just like the fiscal cliff. i think the president's biggest path is to go to the progressive

left and say we got to get this done for the country. and i know you are not going to like some of the stuff. you remember the reaction on our party when the president mentioned cpi, you would have thought he was committing treason. i think that will be the president's toughest task and -- i'm not sure we can pull that off. it is going to take a lot of democrats speaking out. >> he will have to use a bully pulpit and work at it. had's going to have to invest a lot of political capital. >> with our people, too. >> if he doesn't get it done, deal the other big problems you talk about this morning from gun control and to immigration, we are going to make no progress. >> so good to have you on the show. >> thank you. >> hear your calm, measured voice. >> thank you. >> simpson is not here. >> yeah. if al was here you would see a difference. >> coming up, vice president joe biden meets with the nra today as he prepares his recommendations to the president on gun reform. michael enjoins us with the latest that.

a comedic look inside the white house's "1600 penn." josh gad and john lovett join us on set. first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning. stormy weather pattern across the country. greeting us from louisiana through the intermountain west and around the west coast sitting here enjoying the spring warmth. take knew the weather pattern. this is going to go unchanged over the next four days. colder air for the west coast. big snowstorm. salt lake city to the dakotas. northern rockies and we are getting this morning into louisiana, take a look the radar here. the reds are intense thunderstorms. we have a tornado watch that now includes the new orleans area. all the way through baton rouge. couple of reports isolated small tornadoes. down there in southern mississippi, southern portions of louisiana, make sure you keep your family mice and safe. as far as the snow goes, that pink fellow, that's six to 12 inches of snow widespread. idaho, montana, north dakota. areas just outside of rapid

city. for the forecast for today, beautiful day up there from new england all the way through the mid atlantic. still very warm in florida. we are going star cooling it off again. colder in areas of the west. we are going to see snow in many places. ski country will love it. for travel not the best over the intermountain west. you are looking at a minice sho.

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♪

give me four or five specifics you would like to see included in federal gun legislation. >> limit magazines under the assault weapons man which was allowed to go away. you couldn't have had the clips that young man took into the sandy hook school. it would not have been possible. that's a common sense example. close all loopholes. every gun purchase has to have the same rigor attached to it regardless of where it occurs in our country. >> an yell malloy saying what he would like from the federal gun reform. chief house correspondent for politico mike allen. an exclusive what he will be saying to vice president biden today. what will they say? >> vice president is doing a bunch of gun meetings today. the second one is with the nra gun rights groups. interestingly enough, we won't see a photo of this meeting. we will see a photo of the first

meet which is with sportsmans groups, women's outdoor groups and then finally today, he will be meeting with entertainment groups including the television and cable industries for this 1:45 meeting with the nra and other gun rights groups, we are told that they are going to go in with a soft face but hard message. they are not sending their top guy. some of the people we have been seeing out on tv. they are going to be sending their number two lobbyist, jim baker, who is friends with biden and worked with biden over the years going back to the '90s when they were in the senate and work order gun legislation. interestingly enough they also know each other from the delaware beach. but jim baker will be going in there with a -- unyielding message. we are told that, joe, the nra has gained 100,000 new members in the last couple of weeks. $25 a pop. gone from $4.1 million to $4.2 million. to show you what an opportunity they see this debate a was told

their goal is to get to 5 million members during the gun debate. er with told that during this meeting they will say to the vice president, we are willing to talk about any reasonable legislation. but we also listen to what the nra says or real americans beyond the beltway chatter, beyond the d.c. elites. who say they don't want the nra to go soft. >> mike, this proposed meeting with walmart, is it just with walmart representatives? or is it encompassed within larger group? >> no. that's a good question. that was hazy. the walmart meeting today is going to be with the attorney general. eric holder. vice president is not scheduled to be in that meetinging. holder at least will be leading that meeting includes other retailers. >> all right. we will see what happens. obviously it is a big meeting. walmart sells a lot of assault weapons. >> sure. the guy in aurora got his guns

from cannon mountain. got them -- in a regular store. >> governor malloy and governor cuomo really -- they are on to it. when governor cuomo says you don't need, you know, a huge 30-round clip in your rifle to kill a deer, you don't need ten bull totes kill a bear, governor malloy's emphasis on high-capacity magazines -- >> that's what i think you have to bring it up when we said this earlier. you have to bring them up one at a time. not a comprehensive bill. make legislators vote on high-capacity magazines. let them explain to their constituents why they think high-capacity magazine should be legal. >> i mean, you can certainly -- look at the background checks, overwhelmingly americans support background checks for absolutely everybody. >> including nra members. >> that buy as gun. everybody. all americans. and -- high-capacity magazines. those just as well. the majority of americans

believe those should be limited as well. the numbers -- numbers are there. and -- i saw a poll out this morning that shows since wayne lapierre's conference last week the nra's approval ratings has plummeted. we have 100,000 more people. sounds real nice. 25 a pop. they are not -- they don't care about that. they are doing the bidding of the gun manufacturers. let's just -- let's just say the truth here. made millions and millions and millions of dollars off of that tragedy in connecticut. they just -- >> joe, another blunt truth is you know better than we do in spite of what were your saying about public opinion polling, the mechanics of getting any kind of gun legislation lou both chambers are incredibly complicated. that's why you see the vice president out talking about the president looking about what he can do by executive action.

and they are still debating do we do a couple of gun bills? do we do one big huge gun bill? but joe, as i talked to the leadership in the house and senate, they think that this is a really rough sled despite the fact that a lot of people up will want to do it and there is rising support for tonight public opinion polls. >> i will tell you the great challenge for this republican party, important the republican majority, is how well it can read the road signs. newtown changed everything. it just did. it certainly changed things for -- if you look at the conservative e-mails and texts and messages i received over the past several weeks, it changed everything. wayne lapierre is now seen as an extremist on these issues by members of the nra that i grew up with in mississippi and northwest florida. and in tuscaloosa, alabama. all across the south. taking an absolutist position

is -- the challenge for the republicans politically is do they get that in time or do they lose the majority in the house as well? and do they -- set democrats up to win in 2016 and appoint yet another supreme court justice that will reverse, i think, the great gains gun owners made and people like myself that believe the second amendment means what it says, that americans have a right to keep in bear arms, we finally get that locked in 2009 if republicans take an extremist view, they are just going to elect democrats for the next decade and they will even lose that. so -- mike, we will see if republicans can face up to the new realities facing them. i'm afraid in the house of representatives that they may not be able to and if so, they are going to pay a heavy political price. >> mike, i think you got to look at suburban republicans. i got four suburban republicans congressmen in the philadelphia

market. how will they vote on magazines? high capacity magazines. they vote against high capacity magazines p.m. imperilling their re-election in 2014. >> they really are. thank you for being with us. >> joe, real quick, i have to tell you how republicans are saying they are got going to do anything until the senate acts. they give themselves insurance there. i have to say good-bye on the list. somber moat, joe, something else that's catching our eye here at politico today. the cover of the new "sports illustrated" rule tide. >> i love it. i have to get a copy of that. how exciting. coming up next, from the new show "1600 penn" premiering tonight. the great josh gad and john lovett join us next. [ male announcer ] staples is the number-one

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if i decide i'm not going to wear sock, i'm not going to wear sock. >> i love a slow news day. >> stunning audio that appears to reveal first daughter becca

gilchrist is pregnant. >> what? >> after a recent interview the first lady and daughter apparently left their mikes on. take a listen. >> what if one time i let loose and made a mistake? >> it would be healthy. >> i'm pregnant. >> becca, becca, becca. >> who is the father? >> guys, guys, ma'am, please. leave my sister alone. okay? if you have to write something about the crazy white house family, i will take the bullet. write the article about me. >> i did. last week. >> can you send me a link to that? >> you got it. >> thanks. the point is, there's nothing to see here. this is not some salacious story. my sister just broke up with a guy, her friends told her to, you know, blow off some steam and have a one-night stand so she did. >> a stranger? >> look, she doesn't even know

the guy's name so don't bother asking. i think we are done here. ♪ >> oh, my goodness. creators of "1600 penn," josh gad and john lovett. >> hey. >> these are hollywood guys, right? powerful. hollywood guys. >> doing a documentary. this is a document. >> i this is real life. >> you are asking, why are they in washington, d.c.? >> it is because they -- for a guy that knows a little bit about the subject matter. tell us about the screening with president obama. >> yeah. >> it was one of the most surreal experiences of my life. >> other than being on "morning joe." >> other than -- other than being on "morning -- second to "morning joe." >> being on "morning joe" with simpson bowles conversation, ed rendell following mike allen, i

mean, this is -- >> this is huge. >> where's harold ford jr.? >> he is coming up with three points on why your show is so great. >> are we doing as well as donny deutsc deutsche? >> no, nobody is doing as good as donny deutsche. >> take your clothes off. >> what? i don't know what that means. >> how did the president like this? how did it go? >> so -- he was -- i was the speechwriter for a couple of years. gracious enough to welcome us to have a screening. but -- he brought all the staff in and then he said he had to go. and -- >> that's not good. >> yeah. but when -- when, you know, we were working on the core departments dinner a couple of years ago, when -- the bin laden raid was happening and had no idea and so ever since then, you know -- he says he has go he has go. >> got to go. you don't know what he is doing.

you can't feel slight. this show actually -- this looks really, really good. >> thank you. >> so talk about how you guys came up with the idea. >> well, originallyand i discussed the fact we wanted to do something together about ordinary family and in an extraordinary situation. and -- what's more extraordinary than being in the ultimate bubble of living in the white house? then -- this young kid, this young brash kid from d.c. decided to try his hand at writing in hollywood. and we sat down with him and are like this is the missing component. somebody who can ground this world against the backdrop of this very real setting, hope reply. that's when john -- >> i had been -- you know, i left the white house and said that i wanted to write about anything other than the white house and then they came to me and said they had this idea and i said no, no way. wry want to do it.

i'm going to write something about politics, it is going to be vicious, some kind of -- you may be in it. but -- lightly. and -- then they -- we had this great conversation. we realized we could do a show about an ordinary family and extraordinary place and that the setting was just politics, just a way of telling, you know, these family stories about a stepmom and stepdaughter, about a pear and son, siblings not getting along but could do it in this crazy fishbowl of the white house. >> josh, your character is remarkable. hilarious. is your -- is your -- is your character based off of a younger billy carter? >> no comment. month comment. >> you have a lot of dysfunctional first kids to choose from. who do you model yourself after? >> malia. >> that's a way to make sure you don't get a screening for the

second year. >> yes. no. you know what? for me, it was about kind of looking at what that architect might. what it men to be a kid, the other kid, who has warts and all. under the scrutiny of a 24-hour media news cycle. and it was -- fun to kind of -- yesterday i had a chance to talk to jenna bush kind of about what it means to be in that place and one of 44, you know, first families essentially that have have had to deal with that. it is a very unique thing. and it is -- it has been fun to play. >> all right. jon, you know, you wrote for president obama. you wrote speeches for john kerry. and now you are putting together, you know, a mini screen play, television series. what kind of a great gift is it that you can use the media as a foil and the mantra within the series that press is among the worst people in the world? how great is that? >> yeah.

that's right. i worked for hillary. but, yeah, you know, i have a lot of pemt-up frustration. and i get to -- take it out on the press a little bit through this show. which peels pretty good. and -- you know, the -- when politics is a part of this show i do have some fun with some of the people that, you know, i was frustrated by over the years in the white house. there will be episodes to come where you will see some characters that will bear some resemblance maybe a little bit to some real-life -- >> just a little bit. that was a pretty political answer there. >> he is going to swerve off the road to hit some people. cannot wait for that. josh, by the way, josh, it is great to see you again. >> thank you so much. >> i'm glad that your career

just keeps moving forward. >> thank you so much. >> this is funny. >> this is funny stuff. a guy that has been employed at nbc now for theber part of a decade, i'm used to -- i say coming this fall on nbc, oh, my god. i have actually -- leaving soon after. i think -- a movie theater with my daughter before "lincoln" started up. they actually ran this commercial. i caught myself laughing. that doesn't really happen a whole lot other than modern family for broadcast. >> you guys did -- willie steals it. >> outstand. >> you guys did okay. >> of course willie steals it. mika is a huge fan, as you know, josh. and we can't wait. so for the premiere. premieres tonight at 9:30. josh and jon, thank you so much for being here. please come back. >> great to see.

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>> [ bleep ] you america. >> [ bleep ] you america. >> [ bleep ] you america. >> from all of us here at aig. seriously, america, [ bleep ] yourselves. >> it is time now for business before the bell with brian sullivan. brian? >> well, good morning. happy thursday. can't wait for a beautiful weekend here in new york city. looking like a decent day on the stock market as well. early in 2013, i know today i think is only seventh trading day of the year. we are up more than 2% already. we continue this pace we will have a 25% gain all year. now i don't think that will happen. still solid start to the week. some of your top stories today include morgan stanley which is announcing more layoffs. about 1,500 jobs, very high-paying investment banking and securities trading level jobs. about half of which will come at america p this continues to trend the biggest banks out there light citigroup. announcing layoffs. these banks realizing they are too big and their compensation structure is too high. so there's going to be some pink

slips coming at morgan stanley. also got a battle royale on herbalife. nutritional shakes. weight loss products, et cetera. been around 30-plus years. you have two arguably the most powerful hedge fund manageners the world. arguing completely different things. bill ackman, very well known guy, shorting the heck out of the company. thinks it is a ponzi scheme. that's his term. not ours. he thinks the company is going to be investigated by the fcc. dan loeb that says no, no, no. he is buying the stock and thinks it is a perfectly legitimate company. it is a little -- this is a battle royale, guys, you do not see very off own wall street. two powerful guys seeing one company in two very different lights. sort of keeping us occupied here on cnbc. >> i bet. another business for you are following aig. followup to that. they are backing -- not in a lawsuit now but how does it

effect the overall story as it goes? >> well, i think that the fact that they smartly chose not to include themselves in the lawsuit is a good thing for aig. i mean, listen, the lawsuit -- >> they look like idiots. >> yeah. took a bailout from the united states government to the tune of $180 billion, not million, billion dollars. yes, they paid it back. right? the government will make money on that. you took the bailout. putt paid it back. listen, if your uncle lends you money because you are in dire straits and you pay him back, don't sue your uncle. just move on. pat them on the back and say thanks. question, question. cnbc has new alarm clock out. >> is this what barnicle -- >> all morning, mike. >> i was trying do that. you can -- go on to cnbc personalities and get the alarm clock. let's do brian's. here's brian's. there's the thing. can you hear it? >> that's annoy. >> wait. what's more annoying?

>> rise and shine. thanks for waking up with cnbc. i'm brian sullivan. >> oh my god. >> get up and get moving and make -- >> you didn't. >> you talk about going right back to bed. >> seriously? sorry for your wife. i'm not hurt the rest -- why the rest of us would have to be exposed for that. >> all the cnbc personality, i will make a bold prediction. there's about -- 15 of us that are on the app. my voice app will get exactly zero downloads. my own wife doesn't want to wake up to my own voice. rise and shine and thanks for waking up for cnbc. i'm andrew ross sorkin. get up. >> let's go. >> when is the "morning joe" app coming out? i don't want get up, stupid. the red sox, 30 days to pitches and catches. >> i see him doing that to his kids. it is true. >> who thought this idea up?

he's not going to be with cnbc very long. >> i'm fine. no one is picking me anyway. who wants to wake up to this? i don't even want to wake up to myself. >> that's good stuff. >> thank you. >> up next, the best of late night.

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it is wednesday night. welcome. >> hey. >> how is it going? >> what's up? >> nothing. just doing the show. what's up with you? >> now? >> yeah. abc moved us up to 11:35 so we are on our own now. >> yeah, right. >> no, really. they did. what's going on here? >> i used the studio at 11:30 on wednesdays for my kwfs knife show. >> i didn't know. >> it is okay. i will just go ahead and start. >> well, you know, what i'm in the middle of my show right now. >> i have knives to sell, kimmel! okay. knifers, only a few of these beauties left. say hello to the non-stick razor

steel samurai stab master, 2200. this thing literally cuts through warm butter like it is warm butter. >> that's great. that's fantastic. thank you. you are done? >> not even close. >> oh. >> let's bring out my guest who has more stuff to slice. ryan? >> what the hell are you doing here? >> what am i doing here? what are you doing here? you are supposed to be my guest. >> we sell knives at 11:30 every night. everybody knows that. >> i didn't see the sheet. >> we have been here for three month. >> i didn't know. i'm sorry. i don't know how this is my fault. >> it doesn't matter, ryan. let's get to chopping. cookie dough. cotton candy. chocolate milk. always got to slice chocolate milk. ♪ [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up

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